Clear trade answer for ‘messy’ Pies flaw; ‘really bad’ song scene leaves greats alarmed — AFL Talking Points

Why Collingwood must show a free agent the money, how the Hawks have turned a “bad boy” into a star and the song scene that alarmed AFL greats.

That and more as the big issues from Round 5 are analysed in foxfooty.com.au’sTalking Points!

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SHOW HIM THE MONEY: WHY PIES NEED BEN… BUT IT’S A TRICKY TRADE TASK

What’s the dollar figure Collingwood would need to offer star spearhead Ben King in free agency that Gold Coast couldn’t match?

And to woo King to return to Victoria?

That’s the question the Magpies should be asking, given how desperately they need a quality key forward.

There’s arguably no team more in need of a certain type of player in the entire competition.

That was as stark as ever as in Friday night’s six-point loss to Fremantle. It’s a game Craig McRae’s side could’ve, and probably should’ve, won, given the weight of forward entries.

They had an extra 16 inside 50s to the Dockers (61-45) and completely controlled the contest without getting enough scoreboard nourishment, albeit in wet conditions.

It continued a theme all season, with scores of 39, 65, 87, 79 and 78.

If only they had more starpower in attack and general reliability.

You could argue Collingwood is currently a Bobby Hill and Ben King-type short of still being a genuine flag contender.

But that’s with a spate of veterans across the board nearing the end of their careers as the club finds itself in something of a state of purgatory.

Their defence is just about the best in the league.

Their midfield will always be threatening with Nick Daicos in there, even though it also needs a revamp.

But the forward line is the glaring part of the ground, letting them down badly.

McRae conceded as much on Friday night.

“We’re a bit messy forward of the ball, aren’t we?,” McRae said.

“We lack a bit of polish at times, I think we can all see that, but we’ll keep getting to work on connection.

“It’s a version of us we need to keep evolving, but reality is we did enough to win this game, and I think everyone could see that we just didn’t quite grab our chances in tough conditions.”

You know who would help them evolve? Ben King.

Sometimes you just need talent in the front half to capitalise on half-chances. Let alone a barrage of opportunities.

Dan McStay has a great set of dukes and competes hard, but isn’t a reliable goalkicker.

Tim Membrey is more a second or third option and getting on in age.

Jamie Elliott has struggled to back up his career-best 2025 season and would also function better playing next to a gun key.

Lachie Schultz is a great blue-collar, defensive-minded aggressor who gets his hands dirty, but doesn’t necessarily have the class.

Beau McCreery will ideally be more of a mid-forward now.

And recruit Jack Buller and youngster Charlie West are plying their trades in the VFL.

Which brings us to Ben King.

The 25-year-old is exactly what Collingwood needs, both from a team function perspective and to help transition an ageing list.

It’s no secret that the Pies are into King as one of many Victorian clubs trying to lure him home.

But there should be a caveat to Collingwood’s pursuit.

If the Suns matched an offer and forced a trade, that’d be fraught with danger. For the Pies need all the draft picks/youth they can get.

And you’d need a minimum two first-rounders to acquire King – arguably the premier key forward in the AFL.

Therefore, coming up with a figure the Suns literally couldn’t match, and essentially sacrificing extra salary to preserve draft picks, should be the plan.

Or front-loading the contract to the absolute extreme.

Bearing in mind that, by all reports, Collingwood has opened up significant salary cap space, whereas Gold Coast’s books have become tight.

Even if Collingwood’s flag window is closing, if it hasn’t already, King would be a valuable long-term asset for the development of the club’s next wave and to help it regenerate quicker.

Sure, you could look a rung down to fellow key forward free agents Joel Amartey and Mitch Lewis, who would come cheaper.

But those types of players might find life tougher going from their current forward lines to Collingwood’s, where they’d become the number one option and draw all the attention.

And it would see the Pies continue to add good – but not great – forwards.

King, however, is in a different league and would clearly be the most talented key forward to wear the black and white stripes since Travis Cloke, after Collingwood has struck and missed on the likes of Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron.

A Coleman medallist-calibre key forward literally sitting there to be snapped up.

Much has been made of the decision to effectively let Brody Mihocek walk. But the reality is this club needs to start looking past its veterans and transitioning to a younger profile.

How will they look in 2028? 2029? 2030?

Besides, Mihocek wouldn’t have kept them in flag contention in 2026. King mightn’t get them back there in 2027.

But the star forward would certainly be a step in the right direction long-term. Show him the money.

HOW HAWKS ‘BAD BOYS’ BECAME DAMAGING STARS

It wasn’t that long ago that Jack Ginnivan and Nick Watson were considered not much more than Hawthorn’s forward-line pests.

After all, it was an “eye-opening” Magpies exit meeting in late 2023 with Craig McRae — which saw home-truths delivered — that paved the way for Ginnivan’s Hawks move.

But now, there’s an argument to be made that they’re both in Hawthorn’s top-five players.

Because, of the Hawks players to have played in every game thus far, Watson (first) and Ginnivan (fifth) are both top-five for player rating. The other three in that top five are Jai Newcombe, James Sicily and Connor Macdonald.

And while Watson’s ascent this year as not only a forward livewire but a centre ball-up clearance force has been a big story, Ginnivan’s up-the-ground impact has been immense.

‘Ginni’ has always had an innate sense for the big sticks, but having been deployed more on the wing recently, the 24-year-old’s disposal craft has flourished, and his ball use going inside 50 has been a highlight.

Ginnivan was second for ranking points on Saturday night against the Bulldogs, recording 28 disposals and a game-high 10 score involvements.

For the season, he’s averaging 21.2 disposals, 7.0 score involvements and 2.0 direct score assists this year.

“That’s been something I’m working on. That’s in my ‘excellence plan’ – it was (about) execution last year — I didn’t execute going inside 50, and I really wanted to hone in (on) being one of the best inside-50 kicks in the competition,” Ginnivan told Fox Footy post-game on Saturday night.

Ginnivan arrived at Hawthorn from Collingwood as a small forward, but he’s been a feature higher up the ground for the Hawks thus far this year.

“I think just being flexible — so ‘Dalts’ (Jack Dalton) came in last week, and he’s predominantly a forward, so I go to the wing. And then, ‘Cholly’ (Mabior Chol) gets hurt, and Weddle goes forward, so I can go to the wing,” he said on Super Saturday Live.

“I’ve never really been a guy that can play multiple roles, but it’s been nice to adapt on the fly.”

Triple premiership forward Jack Riewoldt stated after the interview that “over the last three years, there’s no player that’s grown more than Jack Ginnivan”.

“When he leaves Collingwood as a premiership player … what would they give to have Ginnivan back at their football club?” he said.

First Crack’s Jay Clark chimed in to ask: “But would he be the same player if he didn’t get that kick up the pants?”

Riewoldt replied: “I think it’s all a part of the maturing journey — I probably look at my own story. You learn a lot in a pretty quick time, being an AFL footballer, but he’s one of the smartest football players going around at the moment.”

The conversation around whether Ginnivan has been better off since his Hawthorn move resonated with two-time North Melbourne flag-winner David King.

“I think that’s a really good question: Is he a better second-club player because he’s a second-club player? I think that’s a good statement,” he said.

Riewoldt added: “I think Sam Mitchell was probably the best mentor for this kid, because Mitchell had a little bit of grunt about him, and he had that as a player as well.

“He coaches Ginnivan hard, but he coaches him well. He’s seen a player with a high footy IQ and actually taught him, and now he’s putting him on the wing and having great input from the wing.”

King said that Ginnivan might just be the latest in a long line of “bad boys” who were eventually able to turn that perception around.

“If you can straighten up a bad boy that can play, you get a great product,” he said.

“We’ve seen it; history’s littered with second-club opportunities, some are third-club opportunities that have been able to grasp it later than some. But he (Ginnivan) is going to be a star-factor player for a decade for this club.”

Alongside Ginnivan, Watson was also a top-five-rated Hawthorn player against the Dogs on Saturday, finishing with five score involvements and a goal from 12 touches.

This year, Watson’s 16.54 average rating points aren’t just no.1 at Hawthorn, they’re fourth in the entire competition, behind only Marcus Bontempelli, Max Gawn and Brodie Grundy.

“I look at Kozzy Pickett, and I think ‘could he (Watson) be better than Kozzy Pickett?’” King said.

“Could he get to that level? They’re similar players. I think they’ve both got the defensive side of the game covered.

“You’d have him probably on the edges of your top-10, I reckon, Watson. He’s charging … (top-10) for impact, yeah. He’s playing a position where you can’t get 30 touches, you can only get a dozen or so.”

‘MAYBE THIS IS DIFFERENT’: GRITTY ROAD WINS SIGNAL FLAG MINDSET SHIFT

There are wins that improve a win-loss ratio. Then there are wins, like what Fremantle has pulled off in the past fortnight, that reshape belief and announce premiership credentials.

In the past two weeks, the Dockers have produced back-to-back road victories over 2025 minor premiers Adelaide then preliminary finalists Collingwood.

The win over the Magpies, in particular, looms as a landmark moment.

It wasn’t pretty, nor was it comprehensive and completely convincing. Yet it was a bruising contest that demanded grit and composure that hasn’t always been associated with this Dockers group in recent years.

“Maybe this is a different Fremantle team,” Fox Footy’s Anthony Hudson said on the full-time.

The Dockers for several seasons have teased the competition with their talent-stacked list. But close losses in tight, high-stakes contests — which have been punctuated by missed opportunities and moments of panic under pressure — have been telling.

But as Hawthorn legend Jason Dunstall pointed out on Friday night, those scars might now be shaping something far more dangerous.

“It’s a courageous win from Freo. Something you need to see from a team that’s got its sights set on something big,” Dunstall told Kayo Sports.

“What they will get from last week’s win and again this week, you start winning the close games, your belief grows.

“You win these close games and you can say: ‘Whatever situation we’re in, we believe we can find a way.’”

That belief was evident throughout a gruelling night against Collingwood.

After a sluggish first half where the Magpies controlled territory (+15 inside 50s) coach Justin Longmuir delivered a sharp and direct half-time spray to his troops at half-time.

It triggered a decisive response.

“Our contest wasn’t up to scratch,” Longmuir told Fox Footy’s Gerard Whateley post-game.

“We came into the game No.1 for hardball gets and we didn’t show that in the first half. I thought we were tentative in contests.”

Whatever Longmuir said worked.

The Dockers emerged with renewed intensity, slamming on three goals in the opening 10 minutes of the third quarter as their pressure game surged. They attacked the contest and embraced the physicality which, for some, had been lacking in past seasons.

“I don’t think Fremantle of 18 or 24 months ago would’ve won that game,” seven-time All-Australian Nathan Buckley told Kayo Sports.

“It feels like they’ve had the elements from a talent perspective for a couple of years, but maybe that little bit of grit is starting to come through more this year.”

That grit was clearly evident in key moments: Big tackles from Isaiah Dudley and Andy Brayshaw, while Alex Pearce and Josh Treacy stood tall with critical intercept marks.

This was a blue-collar victory built on effort, discipline and collective buy-in.

“Sometimes you just need to find a way to win — and the last two weeks we’ve shown that we’ve had the composure when the moments bob up and we’ve taken them,” he said.

“I’ve just got so much trust in this playing group. They’re starting to understand game sense and game scenarios. It’s something we’ve spent a lot of time on in the last couple of years and it’s coming to fruition.”

Star utility Luke Jackson pointed to lessons of past failures as a driving force behind their current success.

“We’ve been playing together a while now, most of us,” Jackson told Kayo Sports post-match.

“We played in finals last year and some pretty close games and been on the wrong end of it — and I feel like we’ve really learnt from those games and key moments.

“This year it’s really coming out and we’re really maturing as a group.

“We don’t want to settle here, we want to keep growing and keep working on our game, but we feel like it’s in a really great area.”

It’s not just the fact Freo is winning that make its early-season run so compelling. It’s how they’re winning: Away from home, against quality opposition and in close games where they’re hanging tough under pressure then seizing key moments.

“One of the key things in these moments is to trust the gameplan and trust yourself to be able to execute,” Longmuir said.

“Probably two years ago or 18 months ago, we would’ve rushed in these situations and panicked and rushed our shots on goal. Now we’re able to steady and take some of those moments.”

Four straight wins won’t define a season. But the nature of Fremantle’s past fortnight just might.

Because if this really is a “different Fremantle team”, the rest of the competition has been put on notice.

‘REALLY BAD LOOK’: GREATS ALARMED BY POST-GAME SCENES

The sole sour note to emerge from Fremantle’s win was the concussion to ruck Sean Darcy – and the post-game scenes that left several ex-AFL stars alarmed.

Darcy on Friday night was ruled out with a concussion suffered in the second quarter when he ran into Magpies midfielder Ned Long.

It continued a tough run for the talented big man. He missed a portion of pre-season training due to a calf issue, following ankle and knee injuries across the past two seasons.

“He was building so, of course, it’s disappointing,” Dockers coach Justin Longmuir said post-match.

“It’s an unlucky incident, it’s going to cost him a little bit of time, and I feel bad for him, but we want to make sure we look after him as well so he will enter the (concussion) protocols.

“It is frustrating, of course, he missed most of pre-season last year and has had injury interruptions early this year, which is frustrating.”

But it was how Darcy appeared after the game that left on-lookers concerned.

Dressed in his club tracksuit, the ruck appeared dazed and confused in the team circle as the Dockers belted out the Freo theme song in the Adelaide Oval rooms.

“Does he know the song or not? … He just doesn’t look like a well man there at that point,” Herald Sun chief football reporter Jay Clark said on Super Saturday LIVE

“You’d think at that point he should be with the doctors or chilling out or on his way home or with his family.”

Fellow Fox Footy panellists Jack Riewoldt and David King couldn’t believe the vision of Darcy.

“That’s horrible, that there. That’s a really bad look,” triple premiership Tiger Jack Riewoldt told Fox Footy.

King added: “It’s not good enough.”

Ex-Port Adelaide coach Ken Hinkley told SEN: “It was a terrible look. Sean is full of energy … he didn’t know he was in that song.”

Clark said concussion protocols were “clearly in the spotlight for the AFL”.

“The optics around concussion are really, really important,” he said.

“Next year, we’re going to have a $1 billion class action. This stuff, we’ve got to get right.”

Darcy’s concussion means he’ll miss the club’s Western Derby clash with the Eagles.

It means Fremantle could promote ex-Pie Mason Cox to make his debut for the club.

‘BIG TALKING POINT’: DEES BIG VICTIM OF FOOTY’S GREATEST ADAGE

It’s the age-old adage that’s overused yet never inaccurate: A week is a long time in footy.

The words were most starkly applied in the Melbourne-Essendon match on Saturday afternoon at Adelaide Oval, which saw the Bombers emerge shock victors to snap a plaguing 17-game losing streak.

And two-time North Melbourne premiership player David King said the Dees were a big story for the wrong reasons, as their hot start to the season came to a screeching halt.

Melbourne had made a scintillating start to first-year senior coach Steven King’s tenure, headlined by early scalps of Gold Coast and St Kilda and a remarkable comeback over Carlton.

But a disappointing 45-point defeat at the hands of lowly Essendon represented a big step back for the revamped Demons, who’d earned plenty of neutral admirers through the first month of the campaign.

“The other side of the coin that I think’s a big talking point is the Melbourne Football Club. They’ve earned a lot of kudos over the last four weeks of football, but they gave a lot back in the contest today,” King told Super Saturday Live on Fox Footy, before talking through the Dees’ stoppage flaws.

“When the game was there to be won in the second half, they simply weren’t tough enough.

“And a lot of this vision is the youngsters, and it’s a tough learning curve for those guys, but when you see what Parish (and other Essendon midfielders) was able to do …

“Get your body over the ball, secure the footy. Look at them (the Bombers) hunting, savaging after them … second half, they mauled (the Dees).”

In the second half, Melbourne was -20 for contested possessions and -13 for clearances.

Essendon had 10 more scoring shots than Melbourne, despite recording just two more inside-50s for the match. The Dons also accumulated 441 disposals to the Dees’ 332. For context, Essendon had averaged just 357 per game.

“It was a smashing,” King said.

“I think the coach would be seething with that style of performance, and he’ll go through this review with a fine-tooth comb, and isolate every issue, because he’s there to make a cultural shift with this group.

“You can’t be great one week and poor the next. They had an opportunity against Essendon to really keep momentum going for this football club, and they dropped the ball.”

After quickly firming as wildcard finals contenders, the Demons came crashing back to earth in a big way, with a massive mettle test coming in the form of Brisbane next week.

But with Richmond and West Coast also in their next four fixtures, the Dees have a chance to resolidify themselves as a tough out in 2026.